Use of Influence vs Social Attributes

From some of the examples given for uses of Influence, it seems like it can be used in almost any situation a social attribute can for a non-attack/invoke/defense roll.

Is this the intent? Or is it a “depends on the GM” situation? I know various attributes can and should be allowed to accomplish the same ends, but in this particular case it feels like Influence steps on the non-combat toes of 3 different attributes. Along with having many powerful banes.

Would it be appropriate to require the player to buy Attribute Substitution to use their Influence value for the social attributes?

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I wouldn’t require the attribute sub. The thing is, which attribute you use can have different consquences, both in success and failure.

My just being persuasive is different from my attempting to alter the mind of another via influence. A lot of that will depend both on the flavor/fluff of the character, their backstory, and the nature of their extraordinary attribute, as well as the way things work in the world/setting.

Using Influence may result in the person knowing afterwards, when they think back on the interaction, that something wasn’t quite right, for example.

As a GM, the attribute you choose may cause the CR to increase or decrease b/c the challenge for that attribute might be different.

Nothing is an island to itself. However, allowing players to shine, and allowing them to use creativity in their character is always a good thing. The biggest question to ask will be, does it make sense (for the character, the world/setting, and the target).

Some creatures may be immune to Influence, or resistance towards it as well. If a player attempts to use influence it might trigger them to be offensive, or regard the party in a negative way, vs using Presence or Persuasion, etc.

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As @Great_Moustache said, I wouldn’t require Attribute Substitution either but Influence is generally a more intrusive method of changing minds than when using a social attribute, so a GM might decide that the CR is higher for an Influence roll or that the consequences for failing the roll are worse, since the target might notice that they are under attack. Also, in some cases it might just be easier to use a specific social attribute, for example, Persuasion when trying to convince an ally or Presence when addressing a crowd, etc.

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I’ve had the same idea before about Prescience as well.
It seems to be able to do everything all Mental Attributes can (excluding will) but with just 1 attribute instead of 3.
Not to mention they can invoke way more banes and boons than Deception, Persuasion, Presence, Learning, Logic, or Perception ever can as you’ve said with Influence.

Great_Moustache already talked about different consequences for different attributes thing.

But the way I’ve personally handled it is this:

Extraordinary can be used to do extraordinary things, but not mundane things.
The rest can be used to do mundane and sometimes extraordinary things, but not often.

In addition, an Extraordinary roll sometimes requires the aid of non-extraordinary attributes.

For example you could use your Prescience to detect and know that supernatural things are at play but you would still need to have good Learning to process the information you gathered and not just get scared and soil your pants.
And Prescience can’t be used to solve a puzzle. That would require the use of Learning. Prescience could give you a hint, but in the end it is up to that character’s natural smarts to solve the puzzle.

Influence I’d say are unable to do the same things Deception, Persuasion, and Presence can.

They’ll either know that you used extraordinary means before or after the fact as Great_Moustache said.

If I were to give examples like with Precognition…

You could use Influence to create the illusion that you are charismatic.
But you would need to either keep using Influence to keep the illusion going which will eventually be discovered, or try to maintain that facade with Deception.
Otherwise, you could just be charismatic and actually have high Presence.

As another example, a trickster with high Deception could trick an Illusionist with just as high Influence as the trickster’s Deception, while an Illusionist trying to trick the trickster might find little success in tricking due to the trickster having enough experience to know something extraordinary must be at play.

Finally, Influence can be used to make temporary friends and then eternal foes, while Persuasion can be used to make eternal foes and convince foes to friendliness or at least neutrality.

Oh, and using Influence to get a better deal instead of Persuasion from a shop might get you arrested regardless of if you succeed or not.