So, as a huge fan of the 4e Warlord and the 13th Age Commander, I have been trying to figure out how to build a character that can use a major action on their turn to let an ally make an immediate attack. As far as I can tell, this type of thing is not covered by the core rules, but I am trying to figure out the best way to do it. Would it be a new feat that just does this, or a new boon that grants a single immediate action? What are people’s thoughts?
If you were to do this, it would be a feat for sure.
I don’t think it would be too overpowered, but I could easily see it being able to be abused (though there are ways to do that with many things). You could look at the Hospitlar Feat for inspiration.
I think the best way to have this work would be a two tier feat, and here is why. I think initially it would be a Focus Action to allow this. In that way it wouldn’t be so overpowered to allow you to be a bolster person with no attacks yourself and then granting others extra actions.
Maybe on tier 2 it would take away the Focus Action and just be a Major Action, OR make it be a Major + Move (like delayed ready) and allow you to sustain boons.
Something to think about, but it is powerful in that the more rolls you have (major actions), the more chances for explosions, etc.
To note, there is something that does this in a way. Assist Ally allows you to grant someone Advantage by using your Major action.
This is part of the reason to make it more than just your Major Action to give someone else a full Major Action (even if it is used just for an attack), especially if that attack/action isn’t on their turn normally.
I’ll put some more thoughts down after I get back this afternoon.
Also, moved this to House Rules under rules discussion instead of just Rules Discussion.
Would not do this through a boon.
Another thing to think about, dont’ always mimic or copy from other systems, as they way systems work is different, and they way balance is created is different.
Thematically, what is it you are trying to accomplish? “Commander” speaks to helping others be more impactful/functional in combat. That is easily achieved through Advantage, and can already be achieved via Bolster by just changing the flavor.
A feat that could boost how Assist Allies works might make more sense.
@Contra the things I found online about the Warlord in 4e seems to show that it gives bonuses to an ally who chooses to do an extra action, not that it gives an ally an extra action.
With this, even more so, I think the Assist Ally action is more up your alley. Were you aware of Assist Ally before? And/or can you give more insight into the theme of character you are trying to build?
You can use your major action to assist an ally with an action roll if they are using an attribute you have a score of 1 or greater in. The ally automatically gets advantage 1 on their roll.
I think it might be interesting to have a feat that allows you use an Interrupt to grant an ally another Major action. Like a combat-effective improvisation.
The warlord in 4e can use actions to allow allies to take certain actions. For example, commander’s strike allows an ally of your choice to make a basic attack (immediately, on your turn), and they get to add your Intelligence modifier to their attack when they do it. There are other, more powerful powers that do something similar.
most of the stuff I saw was all “When the ally spends a _____ point to perform an extra attack” terminology.
It’s not the only thing they can do, but it sounds like that’s the part of the warlord the OP is trying to emulate/recreate. Some of the warlord’s powers (like hammer and anvil) even let both the warlord and another character make an attack at the same time (and that character gets to add the warlord’s Charisma modifier to their attack).
Exactly, this is a separate ability to just granting attack bonuses. And I’ve played a character in the past who treats combat primarily as a chess game, using the entirety of his turn to manipulate the battlefield, move his allies, have them attack for him, and bolster them. He only really attacked on his own when other options were exhausted. I love this gameplay and find that my fellow players usually enjoy it too. It’s what I want to recreate in Open Legend, but it will take way more than just being able to grant a single ally advantage each turn. That would be boring for everyone.
Well, that is entirely a matter of opinion there. Some people might consider what you are describing as boring, all a matter of play style after all!
BUT, that was the information I’ve been waiting on since I asked you for more details, so it gets a better idea in my head of exactly what you are wanting.
I’d say there are certainly some options then in creating a feat that can replicate it in some way. There is a balance in action economy that can be worked out. The way those work in the other systems wouldn’t be a direct implant, but I think something can be done.
I have several ideas rattling around in my head, so I’ll post them in a little bit after I’ve mused over 'em a bit more. And of course, I am by no means, the only person that could do this, so don’t let me discourage anyone else from posting ideas!
Important Reasoning/Starting Point Info
To begin with, I wanted to start with some basic info that influenced some of my thoughts in creating ideas behind this. Giving someone additional Action/Attack Rolls is very steep in Open Legend, and mainly b/c controlling and dealing with Action Economy can be pretty big.
##3 Ways to get Extra/Additional Attacks
1) Multi-Attack Specialist
You can not perform multiple individual attacks unless you have this feat. You can Multi-target and hit more than one target, but to actually roll your dice more than once, or even change up your attacks in 1 turn, you have to have this feat.
The cost is Disadvantage 3 for each additional Attack Roll you make behind the first, and then it applies to ALL your attack rolls for the rest of the round.
2) Haste Boon
Just like #1 above, there is a high cost of disadvantage associated with getting additional attacks/actions. With haste, you can actually do ANY action, whereas with Multi-attack you can only do attacks.
In this case, you get Disadvantage 3 on your additional action (if it requires a roll)
At the higher level, you get Disadvantage 6 on the 2nd additional action (if it requires a roll). This matches/tracks with the disadvantage from Multi-Attack, except you can’t offset this disadvantage like you can with multiple tiers of Multi-Attack
3) Reckless Attack
At first glance, the only downside to this additional attack is that you lose 5 HP. However, you have to be in Battle Trance to be able to do it, and that means you are also getting a 1 level of the fatigue condition/bane.
The idea behind this ability is that you are using YOUR major action (or focus action) to give someone else an additional Attack Roll. This means you don’t have one yourself, so there is already a cost to doing it, whereas with the others the cost is in disadvantage or fatigue + HP.
##Boon vs Feat
Originally I said making this a Boon was a bad idea, HOWEVER, after thinking about it a lot more, I think I actually like the idea of it being a Boon. With Boons, you have PL based on your roll. If you are a commander on the battlefield, how WELL you command should be a factor.
By making it a Boon, your action roll (which will use your Major or Focus action) determines how well someone can perform their “free/additional” attack, and that seems to fit perfectly (in my mind).
I still think there can be a feat or two that works with this, and I’ll list all that now.
Concern/Balance with a Boon
The concern for making it a boon that grants additional attacks is multi-targetting, however. But that too can be addressed, like it is for Summoning.
Being able to sustain it each round. Simple fix, make it instantaneous, and goes away at the end of the round.
Invocation Time: 1 Focus Action
Power Level: 3/5/7/9
Attributes: Presence, Persuasion, Logic, Learning, Influence
Either through the use of superior knowledge, tactics, awareness, or the ability to inspire, you are able to give the target the ability to strike or fight more than they would normally.
Power Level 3 - The target gains an immediate attack (a free action for the ally that must be used before the end of the invokers turn) that suffers disadvantage 2.
Power Level 5 - The target gains an immediate attack (a free action for the ally that must be used before the end of the invokers turn) that suffers disadvantage 1.
Power Level 7 - The target gains an immediate attack (a free action for the ally that must be used before the end of the invokers turn). Additionally, on the target’s next turn, they gain Advantage 1 to an Action Roll of their choice that involves an Attack. This Advantage goes away at the end of their turn, and may only be applied to 1 Action Roll.
Power Level 9 - The target gains an immediate attack (a free action for the ally that must be used before the end of the invokers turn). Additionally, on the target’s next turn, they gain Advantage 2 to an Action Roll of their choice that involves an Attack. This Advantage goes away at the end of their turn, and may only be applied to 1 Action Roll.
A target may only benefit from this boon once per round. Additionally, the feat Ferocious Minions may be applied to the target when using the immediate attack (a free action for the ally).
Multi-targeting for this boon does not work as it does for other boons. You may use a single invocation to inspire multiple allies. For each additional ally inspired beyond the first, you suffer an additional disadvantage 3 on your action roll to invoke (i.e. 2 allies = 2 + 3 disadvantage; 3 allies = 3 + 6 disadvantage). Any effect that modifies multi-targeting penalties will work as normal in offsetting this disadvantage.
No idea if this is too powerful. My only fear is the multiple targets at once, giving that many immeadiate, which I am almost tempted to make it so you can NOT multi-target… but I kind of want that as an option too, as it can be epic, so that’s why I put it in, but at a steep cost.
So what are your thoughts on this? It could just be a feat (and the multi-target wouldn’t be an issue for that), but I gave my thoughts on why a boon instead above (if you click the triangle, it expands that section).
I like that its a boon rather than a feat, If you really want to specialise in being a supporter (Bard comes to mind :P) stand back and direct the fight with Boon Focus and Multi-Target Boon Specialist would really see how powerful that can be. Though with the immediate attack… would that just be a damaging attack or can it be a bane as well?
Would really make a team that works together really pay off.
Side note: Because you’re making it a boon… failure can be a real option… success with a twist would be… interesting to see. Had a thought that Prescience may be a valid attribute, but that would be more that they’re seeing the attacks happen rather than convincing a target that they CAN make another attack
yes, I worded it as Attack so that it could be a bane or damaging.
And yes, that’s why I didn’t pick prescience.
But yeah, I still fear it might be too powerful with being able to multi-target… but I suppose if you invest in that many feat points you’ll get powerful things regardless… have to actually see it in play.
Maybe make a rule about max number of targets with each PL… dunno.
I also thought about requiring the Feat Knowledge (Warfare/Command/Leadership/etc), basically a knowledge related to using the boon.
I really like the work you have done in making this, and may make it available to my players if they wish to play a character like this. The multi-targeting is very well done IMO.