Extraordinary Users Expansion Rules

What the hell is this? “Extraordinary Users Expansion Rules”? What does that mean? In essence, I’ve spent the time to make this document which I have decided to implement. Most of everything is explained in the doc, but I decided to do this because I felt that Extraordinary Stats aren’t fully built up. This gives them more to do, diversifies them a little bit from other attacking types, but also helps boost their weaker power state. Of course, I do have plans to properly scale Melee and Ranged, as well as boosting up Defenses as well, but there’s more to come from that. Please, read and give me feedback!

Here’s the document, in case that Hyperlink is short and unnoticeable.


it is interesting, and maybe I need to read it more, but, from a first read through, it seems like this just takes things you can do with extraordinary items already and makes them cheaper?

If I understand correctly, this uses the character’s Attribute, and attempts to make it more powerful via these things?

Actually, none of these are shared with the Extraordinary Properties.

Directing ups its casting range, regardless of your Attribute.
Empowering allows someone to apply a second bane if they hit 15 or above.
Proficient is completely separate, being a property that only applies to the Enhancing properties.
Afflicting allows a listed bane to be used in a Bane Attack with 2 advantage instead of 1.
Orderly is basically boosting the Boons a player can cast, and if a Boon Focus is present, you can affect 2 people without rolling.

None of these share with the Extraordinary Item properties, and are built specifically to the 8 properties for Empowered Items.

However, you are correct. Following standard Wealth level rules and your own Attribute are what this Expansion revolves around. The point is that Extra-ordinaries are not as potent for pure combat, due to their usage as bane and boon based abilities. This is fine, but I felt like that this (and the rest of the combat system) needs more work. Thus, I’m setting up systems to show off their strengths, but clearly showing their weaknesses more prominently once you see the other systems.

Yes, though at the same time you have reduce your range. Longshot allows this (doubling your range), and can be done via Extraordinary.

Baneful allows a bane to be inflicted at just 5 over defense, Multi-Bane Specialists allows 2 banes to be done at 10+ (instead of 1 at 10 and the other at 15), but can be done via Extraordinary as well.

Bane Focus allows this.

Extraordinary items allow boons to auto succeed, be sustained without the user having to sustain them, have additional Advantage added to boons, or all of the above.

Multi-Target Boon Specialist + Multi-Target Boon Expert allow auto-success on boons on more than 1 target.

Please note, I am not attempting to discourage you, just wanting to double check you are aware of all these things. Streamlining items with some more properties can be nice, and I would encourage it. Though to be careful as creating things can make a big imbalance, especially at a cheaper WL.

This surprises me greatly, as I have seen Extraordinaries been used to huge success in combat in the games I’ve run and participated in.

I took the assumption you were referring to the Extraordinary Item properties. Yes, most feats in-game can be used for beyond this degree, but these can also help compliment a strategic composition of the team. Furthermore, the point of these are to be items that create better synergies with feats. Feats in this game are what make or break most characters, as unless you’re apart of my group which are much more item-centrist, you won’t be getting a million and a half Extraordinary items. With that being said, let me counter each point in my own perspective.

Directing allows a level, let’s say uhh… 3, to get up to 100 Feet of range when their max statistic can be a 6 by base (7 if they have Extraordinary Focus). That right there means they have an item allowing them to attack 100 feet away at a point where they can attack at 50 feet at base, or 75 feet with an Extraordinary Focus. Combine that with Longshot for that item, and you can attack from 200 feet away. Compare that to the 100 feet of range a Tier 6 would get from Longshot, or the 150 feet that a Tier 7 would be able to utilize. Unless a Ranged Character also has Longshot, incurs 1 disadvantage to hit, or has an Extreme Range weapon, they tend to not hit those ranges.

Baneful as an Item property is very much useful. Same goes for Bane Focus as a feat. Multi-Bane Specialist also works well. However, Baneful is an Extraordinary Item property which is not necessarily the easiest thing to get. Bane Focus works the same as Baneful, but can also tackle at Afflicting. Being able to apply banes at 5 or more damage is already immensely potent. Bane Focus however, still counts towards your 1 bane limit. Multi-Bane Specialist is limited as well; as you must have enough of an Attribute Score in order to properly apply these Banes. Consider the fact that the early game has very low attribute score. The lucky hitter may have their Multi-Bane Specialist, but its still limited by the fact that they have a 5, 6 or 7 (levels 1-3). More of the potent banes are higher level, and thus can be finicky to make useful (although it is!). The point is to be able to apply more Banes as a result of either A. getting lucky on a hit or B. building for that kind of path.

Bane Focus does make Afflicting seem redundant; but realize that Advantage in Openlegend has a very direct correlation to power spiking and higher average rolls. My proof lies within this. The two of them stack together to further emphasize their synergy. Bane Focus grants two extra advantage on Bane Attacks, and if a Bane is listed on an item, you gain 1 advantage to casting that Bane. That grants 3 advantage to your Bane Attack. Apply then Afflicting to the item with said listed bane; it gains an extra advantage on the cast. That ups your total advantage to 4 advantage with just this alone, and if you’ve been Bolstered; great! All the more to apply that Persistent Damage you’ve been so eager to afflict that Minotaur with, or that Fatigue on that damned Hellbot trying to murdelize your facehole!

Orderly is probably the one I have no easy way to push against. While it’s true that Extraordinary Items can be used for sustaining Boons, that’s if you have Persistent as a property on it. First off, that’s a +3 WL on it’s own. Then you must take into account that if the item is sustaining the Boon, it has to also have the Boon counted towards it’s WL. That means the minimum level you can be at to use a Persisting item is Level 4, as that’s when WL gets to WL 4. That restricts you to crafted Persisting Boons at levels 1-3 or levels 4-5 if you chose Wealthy as a Feat. Then only at level 6 do you even get to jump up to 6 or 7 where some of the most potent Boons are placed. Of course, WL subtractions can be used, but nobody actually likes those unless it means you can get your Deadly III. As for your other inquiry of Multi-Target Boon Specialist + Multi-Target Boon Expert, that is hard to legitimately counter. The best that I can say is that its meant for synergy at best, unless you plan on not affecting more than two people. After all, just to even make use of that ability, you need Boon Focus I + Multi-Target Boon Specialist II + Multi-Target Boon Expert. That adds up to a minimum of 10 Feat Points to even use. That, at level 10, is about 1/3rd of your Feat Points. Potent, but expensive. The total result with this item only leads to the maximum, that is Boon Focus I + Multi-Target Boon Specialist V + Multi-Target Boon Expert to cost 16 points, or even 19 to 22 if you take higher levels of Boon Focus. This is mostly just to alleviate some of the intensity that comes with that point spreading, but can still be useful in its own right.

Finally, this. [quote=“Great_Moustache, post:4, topic:720”]
This surprises me greatly, as I have seen Extraordinaries been used to huge success in combat in the games I’ve run and participated in.

You are indeed correct, Extra-ordinaries can be used to immensely huge success for combat. But just compare them to most Physical builds. In a rather optimized setting, a Melee character can reach 10 to 11 advantage. Deadly III on their blade, Bolster PL 8 from (let’s say) a Presence stat, Attack Specialization III, where they are Two-Handing the weapon and have Battle Trance. That adds up to 11 advantage; 3 from Deadly, 3 from Bolster, 3 from Att. Spec, 1 from Two-Handing the weapon and 1 from Battle Trance. Ranged attackers follow a similar pattern, just remove the Two-Handing and replace that with Range. 10 advantage to the Extreme Range sniper with Longshot? 8 advantage if they choose to fire from 1500 feet with that Longshot, not even counting that people probably won’t notice that attack because it’s so far away! Now look at your Mage, or your Mutant or your Bio-engineered Super Soldier.

Bolster PL 8. Attack Specialization III. Possibly Battle Trance.

That’s it? 7 advantage, and that’s possibly? They also have a limited range, unlike a sniper who can take 1 disadvantage to double distance or 2 disadvantage to triple it? Seriously? These will hit way more often than if they didn’t have advantage at all, but a physical character can have way too much stacked on top of it in order to make an extraordinary focused character potent for pure damage output. Banes and Boons sway the tide of battle, but if you get caught alone and can’t output damage in the same way as your Swordsman or your Sniper, you have a bigger chance of getting knocked out. If they wanna bump up Attack Specialization, they spend more than 9 Feat Points on that. Just to even get to 10 Advantage like a Melee or Ranged character, you have to spend 18 Feat Points! That’s not worth matching.

I understand your concern though, but I feel as if the other expansions that I plan on using as a “replacement” to the current combat system (it’s more of an addition, but it will have some core differences altogether) will help both justify this system and give them a better and more clear distinction between the three, while keeping all three viable for almost any situation.

I was. Every single thing I mention can be done via an Extraordinary Item.

Most of what I read just re-emphasizes my concern earlier, you are making a bunch of properties that allow access to abilities that would otherwise be much harder to come by via feat points. Now, of course, depending on the campaign you are running, that is 100% fine. If powerful items are available via your Enhancing to everyone, and you are going for a super high power campaign (which I have run myself previously in other systems before OL).

And again, putting a document like this together that provides a standardized way of doing something in a much more structured way that you can already do with extraordinary items can be a good thing. It just seems a little on the “cheap” side for some of the costs that I’ve seen upon my first read through.

The gains you get from advantage greatly drop off the more advantage you have.

For example, just doing a simple roll of 10x for 2d10 (attribute 7), and not using the d20 as that can vary the most:
Advantage 7 = 16 (low) / 22 (avg) / 35 (high)
Advantage 11 = 18 (low / 28 (avg) / 43 (high)

considering a total of 4 advantage difference, not really that huge. Now of course there are going to be outliers, and crazy explosions and things like that, and if you are attempting to really mitigate your bad luck with rolling by having as much advantage as possible, it might be more valuable to do that for an individual.

As far as range is concerned, you can have ranges of 100 miles. At attribute 5 you can have 500 ft, at 6 1/2 mile, at 7 1 mile, 8 10 miles, 9 100 miles.

Again, I’m not saying that what you are attempting to do is a bad thing at all, it is just that I find often people don’t realize all the things you can already do with the system, so I try and point those things out to them. And also the balance of things as well.

Deadly III is a WL 5 item, you can create a similar item for WL 5 that would work for any of the Extraordinary Attributes.

1 Like

Where are those ranges coming from? I’m very confused. The site clearly states that Non-Physical Ranged Attack ranges are kept at specific maxes from 1-3, 4-6 and 7-9. I don’t know if there’s a range for 10 though.

As for the rest of your argument, fair enough. The point of the expansion was for Synergy rather than for it to be able to stand alone. I even explicitly stated that!

So yeah, I am making some things cheaper as properties overall. I give you that point, but considering that statement, I feel as if this is a very perfectly fitting system.

Extraordinary items doing everything that these do is also a bit finicky in its own right. Of course, there is the Special property, but we won’t count that. Sure, Persistent can apply some pretty good non-sustained Boons, but it isn’t as nice as having a support who can focus on supporting others while benefiting from a personal heal. Sustaining 2 Hastes for the cost of 1, while getting Haste yourself is way better overall. Baneful gives the extra Bane, but the synergy will turn out to be giving 3 Banes at minimum with Baneful and Empowering. Extraordinary Items are often rare or expensive at their higher levels. They can replicate the ideas here, sure, but they also add expensively to enriching the totality of the class. Also, you actually can’t get Deadly for an Extraordinary based character, as there is no specific weapon that is used for extraordinary attacks. Making a Special is cool, but considering I tend to not want to do that (as I can go overboard quick) I rather stray away from that, and instead codify information and reference it.

Regardless of all that, I tend to run High-Power campaigns, so that’s also fair enough. I just think that this can help diversify an early game campaign very well, while still showing the late game some kickass power! Plus, remember:

The enemies get the exact same items.

6 Heals for a Free Action?
The plausibility of 6 or 7 banes from an enemy’s high damage?
Multi-Attacking Battlefield Controller?

They are all just as plausible for an enemy as they are an ally. As for balance, I actually plan on making multiple Expansions to make everything just about equal. Melee Expansion, Ranged Expansion, Armor Expansion and Extraordinary Expansions are the 4 that I’m thinking of.

Anyway, despite all that, I do think this is an interesting concept. I do hope you like the concept, despite all of the discussion.

Heightened Invocation

So yet again, I am not discouraging you from this, or saying you shouldn’t be doing this, or anything like that.

So this whole conversation is based around the fact that the items you are creating are also extraordinary items. At least in my mind, all the things you are doing are something that fit under the “Special” property, but provide a standardized why of doing certain things.

And why would we not count that, that is the whole point, that is why the special property exists. I mean, what you are putting forth is exactly what the special property is for, and hence my statements about being able to do so with it.

I do, in fact, find it all very interesting, and that is the only reason I’m putting effort into exploring it.

This isn’t the type of balance I’m referring to. Right now the balance between physical and Extraordinary has more to do with just the ability to get advantage, but in the ways that banes and boons can be utilized, and the fact that part of Extraordinary is that they can attack as well as the banes and boons and overall are far more versatile than Might and Agility.

That’s a whole other discussion though that has been had in a few places.

So to sum up, I like what you are doing, just seems it is… too powerful at the moment as is.

I will say I’m doing a lot of this tired at the moment after doing 2 days of filming for instructional videos and then driving all the way back home last night, so I’m probably not doing the best job of conveying everything, so I apologize for that and if I seem to be super confrontational or anything, as that isn’t my intention, but more to help create something that could be very beneficial in the end.