Some banes and boons may be using multiple attributes. For example regeneration, that can be used via creation or alteration. It brought me to the idea of complex invoking.
Basically, there is a second invoking attribute. By infusing divine power with awaking of dormant natural regeneration you enhance your healing power.
Purely mechanicly it can be done in picking first attribute, then second one, if total cost of secondary equals or exceeds double cost of next point in the primary one, treat it as one higher. It can’t increase score above 10
Example: Kaya have 5 points in both agility and entropy. By enhancing blades with essence of death it causes her opponent to bleed more amply. Cost of next point in agility is 6, total cost of entropy is 16 so for invoking bleeding she invokes it as her agility was 6.
It can be expanded to damage rolls or attribute chek. Any suggestions?
I’m not sure if there are typos or it just isn’t explained well, but I’m not sure how you determine this.
Default, I would say this isn’t a good idea b/c you are doing something that is more powerful than a 3 point feat cost. If anything you would need to make this a feat to give this access, and overall I didn’t really see it being a good idea.
Is there a reason you feel this is needed? What is this doing for your game that the current rules don’t? What feeling are you hoping to achieve by allowing this?
I realize I typed all of that pretty fast so it might not be clear, but I’m trying to dig into why you are doing this to see if there is a better (and easier) approach to what you are wanting to do (by figuring out what you are really wanting to do).
Thanks for replying.
This home rule is intended to give a bonus from secondary attribute to the main one. I think the best way to imagine it is a precise hit. With the same dexterity damage would be dealt proportionally to strength used, right? This is what I aim for.
I wanted to add some complexity to game mechanic. OL is just so flexible due to simple mechanics and I feel like adding this sort of things makes the players’ opportunities so much juicier. And yes, its very powerful, but there is a drawback: you need to spend attributes points for that sort of things.
Another reason is that I’m working on magic schools system and a few new banes and boons that require more that 1 atribute to invoke. But since they are harder to invoke they need to be a bit stronger. Due to this fact I felt like leaving old banes and boons behind. So I’m trying to give them a little bit more flexibility and buff them a little.
Next, I think it’s a logical thing to do. Why shouldn’t strong and agile warrior be more lethal than just agile? There aren’t any attribute-mixing mechanics and in my opinion this may be very potent thing to develop.
Although I agree that it may be too much powerful. It also require special training to do so.
If not just basic home-rule maybe feat will fit better? And I suppose triple the cost should be fine.
I’m not entirely sure what you mean by this? If you mean they h ave to invest in another attribute, I suppose that is true,but most of the time they already have the attribute anyways. Plus you can just do Attribute Sub Tier 2 and then you already get it for free and then it just stacking.
This is exactly what Feats are for, that’s why there is Two-Weapon brute that requires you to have both Might and Agility.
There is already cross over in Attributes access to damage, banes, and boons and that is designed specifically for flexibility in the system. It’s an interesting idea, but again, giving players access to things earlier than they should. This is going to make it harder for you on balancing encounters and actually challenging your players.
There already are feats that exist that require you to have “training” in more than 1 thing. Allowing it outside of feats I don’t think is a good idea at all. Even having banes or boons that require more than 1 thing I’m not sure is a good idea either, but you’d have to go into more detail and say what these boons and banes even are.
See, Martial and Extraordinary Focus allow you to roll your dice 1 higher than you have access to (which is like what you are saying, except yours also gives access to higher power levels of a boon that the feat doesn’t). Those feats are 3 points.
Furthermore, your calculations for determining this are way too easy. I only need a score of 4 in an attribute and it is able to boost ANY other Attribute to the next level for dice and access. and for first level, I’ll be able to do this right away with just a score of 3 in an attribute.
So basically I can combine a Creation 4 with an Agility 8 and now I have access to the Death Bane.
Having investment into attributes already has its own bonuses, you’ll be making them so much more powerful in so many ways with this. You’ll be adding some unneeded complexity that will probably end up breaking your game in the end.
If you are wanting to make things more “powerful”, simple add advantage to actions b/c of attributes. That wouldn’t be too crazy to implement, and for weapons would be really easy. If a weapon has both the forceful and precise property, and you have both Might & Agility within 2 of each other, than you get additional Advantage.
You could do something similar for boons and banes. If a boon or bane has both 2 attributes listed that are within 2 of each other, than gain Advantage.
Advantage is already something you can hand out easy as a GM.
Although this argument intuitively makes sense, I think that it’s a bit of a misunderstanding of what attribute scores really represent. Your score doesn’t necessarily represent how strong or how dexterous you are, but rather how effective you are at using that attribute.
For example, suppose that you are playing a fencer who fights with a rapier. While it is true that your character has to be fairly agile, a high Agility score for this character probably ALSO represents the strength of their arm, wrist, etc., so that they are able to make effective use of that agility.
@Igotex, I think you’ve got an interesting idea here. It makes me think of HP and the Defenses, that combine Attributes. There’s also the Mimic feat, in which you need Alteration AND Deception. I don’t see a problem with having something like what you’re talking about. I’d like to see some more specific examples.
Truthfully, it doesn’t require Alteration, it requires that you are able to shapeshift at PL 4, which requires Alteration 4. For search purposes, it is left as Alteration though.
But yeah, it could be interesting, mostly (at this point with how it has been described) it just seems overly complicated.
Make a feat that possibly adds Advantage to some boons/banes I think would work well though.
This is really what I’m most interested in what @Igotex has been saying:
If it was me, I wouldn’t add the whole “boosting” thing that you mentioned, @Igotex. I just honestly don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze with that idea, but hey, if you want to try fleshing out that idea, go for it!
HOWEVER, if you want to throw together some new Banes and Boons that require more than one prerequisite attribute in order to inflict/invoke, that’d be really cool!
For something like that, you’d have to specify the method of rolling and the power level.
Here’s an example I thought up from my comment above:
(Concept borrowed from D&D 5e)
Resilient Sphere (bane)
Description
You put a sphere around your enemy, keeping them from hurting anybody.
Duration
10 minutes
Power Level
7
Prerequisites
Creation 7 and Protection 4
Attack
Creation vs Guard
Effect
The target is trapped in a sphere that occupies their area. While in the sphere, the target becomes immune to all attacks that target either Guard or Toughness. However, they also cannot deliver any attacks that target Guard or Toughness. The target can still move in any direction that which the target is normally capable, up to the target’s normal movement speed.
This is actually achievable already in the system as is, through barrier impassable (which happens to be PL 7.
It would require 5 line segments however (or if the GM allows you to apply Area Manipulation to a boon, just a 3 length cube with the middle hollowed out).
Now for creating it as a straight Bane instead of a Boon, I’m not sure this is a great example of using 2 attributes, as this makes perfect sense for just Protection, not sure that Creation is needed.
Also it appears that it is just Insubstantial as a Bane minus being able to move through objects and moving up and down. I thought resilient sphere didn’t allow things to pass through it and stopped magic from passing through as well?
10 minutes seems long, but could work, of course after 3 failed resist rolls. Don’t forget that with Banes, the target gets to resist those. Notice, that with the boon Barrier, since it is a boon, the target is unable to resist it, and just has to deal with the impassible barrier that is surrounding them.
I agree that it could be an interesting concept, depending on what Boons or Banes you come up with, but in the end, I’m not sure it really works like that. Especially with how dependent the boon or bane would most likely be to a specific setting.
If you were creating a Campaign Setting or Adventure Module, and included something that could work… but again, right now I’m just not seeing it, especially with the supplied example.
That doesn’t mean it can’t or won’t work, but I think it needs some more refinement, and maybe sitting down and really determining what you are hoping to achieve with it.
A lot of people don’t realize what all is available already with the given boons and banes. The other thing is often just porting a spell from another system doesn’t work quite as well b/c the mechanics are different (in other systems having limited ability to cast spells, the ability to resist and throw off spells, ect). So you always look at what the spell is attempting to achieve in that game, and port that concept over.
I will say, originally when you posted and I read it, I thought you were saying that 2 attributes that were both at the same score, used to do a boon could allow you to do more. That seemed more interesting b/c of the investment needed, BUT, again, the thing to remember is that boons are already powerful in Open Legend b/c of the ability to keep invoking them and keeping them going compared to other systems. Doing t hings that just allow you to do multiple boons in 1 invocation can easily be overpowered.
Again, just wanted to make sure I"m being clear/transparent here as someone kindly pointed out that might not be evident in my posts.
I often write trying to be quick about it when I can, and with what is the main focus of my thoughts at that moment. This sometimes can come across as harsh, combative, or trying to hammer someone down.
All of my posts are here b/c I am interested in the possibilities that exist with your thoughts/ideas. I just want to make sure they make sense and work well.
I do not want to discourage you from continuing down this train of thoughts, I’m simply attempting to help assist you down it so that something can come about that really works, not only for you, but for others.
I just wanted to reassure you, @Igotex , that I would not keep posting to this thread if I didn’t find it interesting in the first place.
so I got this idea that I’ve been kicking around for boons, I got a lot more thinking on it done during my long drive today home. Hopefully I’ll remember all of it tomorrow and write it up.
I mention this, b/c part of it can be linked to what you are potentially wanting, but I’ll make a new post b/c it has a lot of other ideas.
Making this post now to help remind me, and now it’s out there, so, I have to?