Extraordinary Item Creation Question

Under the new rules, is there a way to reduce the time it takes to craft extraordinary items, other than GM fiat?

Under the old system, it took 4 days to craft a PL4 item. I believe it now takes 16 days to craft the same item.

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IRAW, there is not. Without GM intervention, fast crafting just isn’t a thing (yet). However, due to the Fun>Story>Rules nature of OL, I’m sure if you give a GM a good reason and way to speed up the process it shouldn’t be a problem.

For example, you could have a low DC based on the Attribute used in creating the item. Say DC 10. If you meet or pass the threshold it could just progress at regular pace. For each 10 you pass it by reduces the time by 1+ days.

Remember that fun and story should trump rules and power gaming. As long as it’s fun and makes sense to the narrative of the game, feel free to adjust the rules as necessary.

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Also, just being able to craft an extraordinary item is pretty powerful, so there is a reason it is a bit restrictive on time. It is meant more as a downtime thing to do.

Flying through space during a hyperjump that takes 5~10 days. On a boat sailing, waiting for reinforcements. Taking a break after a tough fight.

If you can just crank out those extraordinary items super fast, it could be potentially game breaking for a GM. That’s why a GM has the final say, which includes in adjusting the time/materials/cost.

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Exactly. GMs can feel free to distribute as much power as they want, but we’re advising what we feel is a “safe” baseline. And pumping out a Wealth Level 4 item (which most of us could not afford at all, in real life) every 4 days is actually too powerful.

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I am the GM. The rule change breaks one of my player’s characters, and I was looking for a way to fix it without GM fiat. It also impacts a module I’m writing.

Since it’s down to fiat I’m considering the following:

Additional crafting rule:

You may decrease the amount of time crafting an extraordinary item takes by making a crafting check whose CR is equal to 10 + twice the wealth level of the item. A successful check reduces the amount of time needed to craft an item by 1/4. You can further reduce the crafting time to 1/2 by taking disadvantage 2 on the roll. Taking disadvantage 4 will allow you to craft the item in 1/4 the original total time. Disadvantage 8 will allow you to reduce the crafting time to the minimum increment of it’s wealth level (two days, four days, one week, or one month.)

Feat:
Master Craftsman
Cost: 3
Tier 1-4
Requirement: Create Extraordinary Item 1
Description:
Through long study, practice, and innovation, you have become a skilled and respected craftsman.

Effect: You are able to craft extraordinary items faster than normal. For each tier, reduce the time it takes to craft extraordinary items by 1/4. Tier 4 allows you to craft extraordinary items at the minimum increment for each wealth level (two days for WL 1-3, four days for WL 4-5, one week for WL 6-7, one month for WL 8-9.)

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Let’s focus on why this is necessary first, and then talk about new feats and rules second. Can you explain a bit more about why this breaks your player’s character and why it breaks your module? That’s what I really care most about.

If it were my game, I would allow the character to keep anything they had previously crafted, no questions asked, and impose the new timeframe for future items crafted.

Note that the old items were nowhere near as flexible as the new ones created by this feat, so we had to put a limiting factor in there.

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At WL6 a character can just buy WL4 extraordinary items every day without it impacting them financially.

On the PC side, I find it more meaningful to the character and the player if they invest time and effort into creating the item, so I’m looking for a mechanism to allow them to do that without having to have the party stop adventuring.

On the NPC side, faster crafting means the party can order a custom item, go on a side quest for a few days, and pick up the item as their reward when they finish.

That said, I do understand the need for a baseline, especially for newer GM’s and players.

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Makes sense. But I think the existing timeframes are the most logical limitations, because realistically, given your stated intention, if player’s expend their wealth at the maximum possible frequency to purchase extraordinary items, I would say the game would likely get out of control very quickly.

I think the real thing is that you want to have short creation windows and impose longer intervals between them. I would probably do the same, so I understand that. But also, there’s no way to write that as a mechanic that’s anything less than mind-numbingly complex.

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One of my PCs is an enchanter. He doesn’t cast spells directly, he builds specific magical items for the effects that he wants. He started with a basic fire wand. He then built a shielding amulet while the group was moving between areas over a handful of days. He’s slowly adding to his arsenal as the party travels. It’s been really interesting to watch.

The rule change means that the time changes from 4 to 6 days, which is manageable during travel, to 16 days to 6 weeks. That kills his concept.

My module is a bit of a sandbox. There’s an NPC that offers custom magic items, instead of money, in exchange for dangerous side jobs. I’ve got a list of quick quests he offers, which support the overarching story. While I could just present a list of premade items, I think it’s more meaningful to offer players something customized for them. Being able to offer decently powerful items within a few days makes more sense for the module than the increased time scale.

I fully acknowledge that I can houserule these changes, or just keep using the old rules for my groups; but I figured I can’t be the only person that uses crafting for story purposes, or character concepts. I thought I’d mention it.

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I often use crafted items to tell my stories, though I do not currently have any PCs that do a large amount of crafting. This is an interesting case where some consideration may be needed.

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Don’t get me wrong, I do like the new mechanic. I definitely see it’s value for newer GM’s and players, and as a means of keeping certain kinds of players in check. It also takes a lot of the guess work out of crafting.

I’m just looking for a way to keep dedicated crafters viable. The mechanic you previously had worked well for my settings and my group, but, again, I understand the rationale for the change.

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@DiegoHawkins - can you explain to me why crafting Wealth Level 3 items is not good enough to honor your player’s original character concept? I think this might just be a matter of you sitting down and considering the huge new horizon of possibilities for crafting that were previously not possible. Anything up to Wealth Level 3 can be crafted in 6 days or less.

Considering there are about 3 million permutations of items that can be crafted within 6 days or less, I don’t think it would be true to say that “craft builds are no longer viable”. I would say the opposite, they are more viable than ever.

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My Dm let me make a crafting character with a homebrew perk called sleepless (self explanatory), this helped me make items at a good rate and still adventure with the party.

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So, the more I think about this, the more confused I become @DiegoHawkins. I really don’t think there is a time-to-build change from the old rules to the new rules. I was reviewing the current creation guidelines to find the difference.

In an attempt to do so, I was looking at this table. The old rules allowed you to create an item with attribute 5 in 5 days. The new rules allow you to do the same thing in 6 days (see below).

So, I don’t see the problem at all, at this point. If you have a player upset about no longer being able to make a Attribute score 6 item in a short time, then that’s intentional and it’s my recommendation not to make that possible within a 1 week timeframe.

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Walk through this example with me. He’s currently wanting to build a void bag, inspired by Miroku from Inuyasha.

A regular character could take Alteration or Movement 4 and access the absorb object boon at first level. They just roll Alteration or Movement to activate it. Boon Focus would let them do it without rolling.

The void bag would require Alteration or Movement 4 as an attribute. That sets the wealth level at +3. That’s a base of six days.

He’ll be able to use it frequently, so that’s +1 to the wealth level. It’s also versatile, so that’s another +1. (I may be incorrectly applying those modifiers. Please correct me if I’m wrong.)

We’re at wealth level 5, which will take 20 days to craft according to the bullet points under create extraordinary items in the Feat chapter.

It’s also powerful, so I’d probably add +2 for that. (He’s going to want to attack people with it.) That takes it to wealth level 7, which takes seven weeks to craft.

The argument is that seven weeks is an excessive amount of time to duplicate a power another PC could easily achieve at first level with ten points. I see room for that argument.

Thanks for the consideration. I really appreciate the time you put into answering questions.

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@DiegoHawkins - I’ll tell you this – nothing beats the rule of “GM Common Sense”, Open Legend core rules constantly remind you that the GM there for situations exactly like this.

You’ve got a few rules misunderstandings, so let’s fix those:

  1. Used frequently - Being able to use an item frequently doesn’t increase it’s Wealth Level, that only happens if you make up a Custom Property. For this reason there is a STEP 3: Custom Properties which is distinct from Step #1 and #2. So you’re adding a WL increase twice, when it should be once. The WL increase is already covered by the Attribute / Bane / Boon cost on that table in Step 1 and Step 2. So, here -1 from your calculation

  2. Versatile - same problem as #1 above, this applies only to custom properties. -1 to your WL calculation

  3. I don’t think it’s powerful, this is a similar mistake to 1) and 2) above. -2 to your WL calculation

  4. So after fixing your calculations, we have the following:

  5. Entropy 5 = +3 WL – OR – Absorb Object 4 = +2 WL

  6. Reliable (if you want it to never fail to invoke) = +2 WL

  7. I would propose – Entropy 5 + Reliable = WL 5

  8. Special Property - ( -1 WL adjustment) - This item has an Entropy score, but can only invoke the ABSORB OBJECT boon and make Entropy attacks, it doesn’t have access to other banes, or boons

  9. Final WL = 4 … from here, I would say bringing it down to 3 is a GM’s call. The problem with your argument is false equivalance – that crafter character doesn’t suffer for trying to create an item with a score of 5, rather the non-crafter suffers because the crafter can create an item to give themselves an attribute score of 5 in every attribute for the low, LOW cost of 3 feat points.

I don’t think there’s any problem with the rules here, I think the problem is in assuming the guidelines (which are approximate) for custom items is some unbending standard.

That being said, just change the Wealth Level of the custom item if you want it to work that way.

The rules are doing exactly what they should be doing here, which is preventing someone from combining a different set of item properties with the same value, that would end up being much more broken.

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Yes! Spread my motto @ConradCurtis! “Fun>Story>Rules” <3

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